Saturday, February 14, 2009

"Death And Ruins - 5.05"

As much as this episode jumped around, I found it very satisfying. Not in terms of answering enough questions, or not adding any more, but just in how full it was of tantalizing scenes and activities! But some of the points that stuck with me are:

** If Sun shot Ben, would the Island make the gun misfire a-la Michael's attempts? Either Ben has no fear of her pulling the trigger for that reason (so he can be as snarcastic as he likes), OR, Ben has fallen out of favor (and usefulness) with the Island and he is very afraid that she will shoot him (and his sarcasm comes from that fear). I'm not quite sure what to think about where Ben may stand within the Island's graces at this point, now that he's made so many misjudgements along the way.

** It was great getting to learn more about the B612s of course, so thanks very much to TPTB for living up to their promise of giving us Danielle's backstory! Who knew that they had been to the ruins/Temple?! So sad that they lost a war with Smokey and disappeared down one of his vents though. Why was Montand so casually asking for help after his arm was ripped off?! "Hey help! And by the way, could you send down a cappuccino?" It was nice of his colleagues to look for him down the hole, but what happened to them all?? Did they look into the eye of the Island like Locke did? Maybe Robert shot Danielle for the same reason that Locke shot Naomi, because she would have ultimately, and sanely, worked against the island's wishes.

** Seeing Jin as the wise islander with the B612s was very interesting. For so long he had to rely on the guidance of everyone else, but here he was almost in a leader role for them.

** Some time-skips come quickly and some take longer. It would be weird if it happened every 4,8,15,16,23,42,and 108 minutes, which would kind of connect it to the Swan venting protocol. I doubt if it does though.

** It worries me that Locke keeps saying that Sun wasn't supposed to leave the island. If she was meant to stay, does that mean that she and JiYeon were meant to die? Because they would have if she had not left.

** "So, you speak any other languages?" "Just Klingon." X-D

** In the first few seasons, we were told that the island was a good and healing place. Now we are told that it is death? I'm confused...again.

** I wonder if we'll see little Charlotte saying something to Mr.Dan in the past in a time-skip about not having chocolate before dinner, that would connect the past and the future? And, totally freak Dan out. I'm sorry that Charlotte died, and sorry if we don't get to see Mader in the show any more, she played the part very well.

** The scene where the well closed up and Sawyer is left holding the rope was incredible. Obviously the FDW surface hole was not natural, which begs the question: Why did someone dig an easy access well to the FDW, if the power source is so volatile and dangerous to humans? Wouldn't that be a bit like leaving the lid off of the Chernobyl chimney after it blew and was spewing out radiation?

** It never ceases to amaze me how Locke can be so brave and so cowardly at the same time, and Terry O'Q is such an amazing actor in portraying all the mental nuances of emotions that run through Locke's head.

** Does Dan know that his mother lives in a church spending her time working on the mechanics of the Islands movements? Can't wait to find out.

** It looked as if the FDW did rotate some when Locke made the adjustment, was that the moment that Locke gets bounced off the island? I suppose so, since CS was practically saying good-bye.

Update: Jo commented on her first article about this ep that we should probably be studying up on Charthage and Hannibal, which is a very good idea. Charlotte's babbling might not have been just all filler dialogue to show how crazy she was until she died. :-o


memphish said...

Nice post Capcom. Ben's role is very up in the air. If I were him I'd be very wary about whether I'm to live or die, especially after getting that tumor. I'd rely on my wits rather than the Island at this point.

Your point about the B612s has me wondering about Locke's encounter with Smokey in Walkabout. Has he had the sickness since then? You could certainly make a case given the flashback Locke's we've seen that on Island he doesn't act like himself.

I still can't figure out why the O6 need to come back? If they weren't supposed to leave, and there's course correction, etc., then how did they leave? This one really stretches the free will/fate battle.

I'm assuming Daniel does not know about his mom's whereabouts and colleagues given that he sent Desmond to Oxford.

Your questions about the wheel well are very intriguing. Did the 1954 era Others fill in the wheel when Dharma arrived? Or did Dharma fill it in to fool other Dharmites like with the video?

Capcom said...

Thanks Memphish! And you're right, especially including Ben's tumor, he's got to be on shaky ground with the island for some time. At the very least, the island/Jacob has let him know that he is now expendable, so he'd better act carefully.

Good point about how Locke has not been his off-island self since meeting Smokey. Even leaving out the milktoast aspect of his previous personality, he went from workking to help the Losties survive right after the crash, to working for the island's interests only doing crazy things willy-nilly for it.

I wonder if Hawking was working on things while she was in the UK when Des met her? Did she have a pendulum under her shoppe there? :-D

I was also wondering about the well, if they went into the past (presuming, because the Orchid structure disappeared) why did the opening disappear? Assuming (again) that the ancients knew about it, I guess that they didn't need a well to access it, and the DI did? I dunno.

maven said...

Good job, Capcom. I, too, was wondering about the well...when and why was it built? If it was an access to the FDW chamber it would be strange to construct a well and not some sort of staircase down to it. Maybe the well was built as a well and accidentally discovered the chamber.

And when were those jumps? Was it prior to 1954? Would Richard's people have covered it up in the 50's, or did they jump to a time when the well hadn't even been built yet? And if they covered up, how did Charlotte know it was there? There didn't seem to be anything around them when Sawyer was left holding the rope.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Good post, Capcom. Re: Ben/Sun, Ben prepares for everything and I think he knew that Sun's gun will not fire (blanks, whatever). But you bring up a great point that he may not be as immortal (if you will) as he thinks, but his little speech in the car at Jack & Sun made me believe him more than I ever have about anything, so I think the Island is still protecting him in that he is still helping the Island.

Montaud was dead in the Cerberus Vent, Capcom, the monster was using his voice to urge others to follow down below. Rousseau was the only one who did not. (Smokey took the form of Yemi right before killing Eko, I gave it a lot of thought until I recalled the Yemi duplicate). I still am not certain why the victims are chosen the way that they are, other than Keamey's crew. To scare off or intice intruders (thus infecting them with the sickness)?

The schematics go against it, but I had given thought to the well being there at a time when whoever lived on the Island needn't worry about the energy, and had a cool image of a giant Four-Toes running a string down the well to the wheel to fix it if it went off the access. Charlotte certainly could have known about the well if her dad worked construction on the Orchid.

memphish, I don't get the whole delayed destiny of the O6 unless you look at LOST as a time loop at this point, only all of a sudden, the O6 are gone. I've mentioned to Capcom in months past how I thought it would be weird if the Numbers represented people and not numbers.

Back to Locke, I've always seen him as a conduit for Jacob, again, discussing this with CC. Last summer I rewatched the season after losing my job, and of course we did not know of Jacob for quite some time. So those early episodes, I kinda think, are Jacob using Locke to watch Walt. He took the one most likely to believe in the Island, being crippled. In a way, Locke is manipulated as much by the Island as he was by Ben.

Nice comments, everyone.

Oh, and CC, I'm wondering if the "this place is death" scenario is meant for everyone, or just a certain set of people. Faith=healing, science=we don't need you. Makes the Island kinda narrow-minded that way.

Benny said...

** You say Ji Yeon and Sun would have died had they stayed. But how do you know that had Locke actually turned the wheel or if they hadn't left in the first place the circumstances would have been the same? Things might have been completely different.

** Healing/Death: that is a great contrast. I wonder if the island has split personality. In stability, it is quiet and healing, but Ben turning the wheel or the O6 leaving acted as a stab and made it angry!

** I'd like to think Dan gained an affinity for physics and time-mechanics from his mother, but that she has a bigger role in the entire scheme is a secret to him.

@memphis: could it be that a window opened up where free-will was possible and hence saw the O6 leave but fate/destiny has trouble moving life forward with them in the real world?

@capcom: The whole well/Orchid thing is intriguing because one would assume that the DI would have inspected the well had it been there. I'd say the timeline here is: there's a well, the natives filled it since they didn't need it. DI came on the island, found energy without an explanation and built the Orchid.

Miss Scarlett said...

Why was Montand so casually asking for help after his arm was ripped off?

I figured it was no longer Montand speaking but Smokey using him to lure the rest below ground.
Kind of like how Robert was later being used to kill Rosseau.

Capcom said...

Tx friends!

Yes, I'm fuzzy on those few jumps there too Maven. I guess I should read the synopsis on Lostpedia to see if they've got anything helpful. When there is nothing much to reference in the immediate area, it's difficult to say 'when' they are.

Sure, that's what I figured about Montand Wayne, but I wasn't sure. It sounded so hilarious, he was so nonchalant about it! X-D It also reminded me of when Capt. Kirk and Nurse Chapel went to see her old boyfriend Roger on some planet, and the big Lurch guy imitated Chapel's voice to call Kirk in the caves, heheh.

I loved Ben's meltdown in the car, it was well deserved! And me too Wayne, I've often thought of Locke as Jacob's puppet on strings, since he's so emotionally malleable.

Hey Hi Benny! Interesting thought about what might have happened to Sun and baby if things had gone as the island planned, it could have been different maybe. I'm just wondering if the deadly fetus problem would still affect them if they stayed. I also like your idea about the effects of the island if it is or isn't stable, hmmmm.

You know, maybe the DI found a covered well to the FDW with their sonar, and redug it? I hope that's not going to be one of the many details that won't ever get explained. It's not super important to the story, so perhaps it won't. Bah-humbug. :-(

Great comments everyone! :-D

Capcom said...

Hey Miss Scarlet, you snuck in under the radar while I was typing!

Yes, I guess that I'm the only one who didn't see that right away, maybe I just didn't want the B612s to get killed off so soon so I didn't want to think that it was Smokey. :-B

skweeds said...

Got an email from someone about a Knoxville LOST watching group... here are some details a girl named Carmen sent me:

Ok - so a couple friends & I are trying to get a group together to watch LOST on Wednesdays. Starting from 8:00pm - so we can catch up on the week before episode & exchange info./thoughts/LOST theories. Right now - we're thinking Downtown Grill & Brewery on Gay Street. They have a big screen TV & an area with couches which we think would be ideal. Also their happy hour is pretty good (can't pass up $2.00 drafts/margarita's).

Anyway, email me (skweeds at gmail dot com) and i'll give you my number if you're interested in coming! We're going to try and start this weds!

Capcom said...

Hey that sounds like fun! Well, I defintely can't do it this month, but if it keeps going, maybe sometime after that. Thanks for letting me know about it! I don't even know much about where things are downtown yet, nor, found a nice dark pub to call my own yet either.

skweeds said...

Hey - Sorry to hear you can't come! I figured I'd let you know anyway, we changed the location so it's going to be at the Roaming Gnome pub (bar/grill/travelocity ad?) - - the Knoxville gnome. Who knows. Apparently their drinks are cheap and whatnot.
Also, it's really easy to find: it's on 20th street, just up the hill from Cumberland, a few blocks east of Alcoa Hwy..
Anyway, if you can't make it "this month" that just means tomorrow and next week, so see you 2 weeks from tomorrow maybe? :D
Also my email is skweeds at gmail if you want to get in touch.

Capcom said...

Well you make it sound pretty tempting Skweeds. It's just that right now I have been having some rough times and I feel like I've been through the mill, in addition to health problems that I have, so I'm playing it close to the vest lately.

I'll have to take a dry run during the day and try to find the place. Shouldn't be too hard to find if it's off Cumberland, and I'm familiar with how the street numbers run now at least! I'll check the website. Heheh, you're right, there's not much left to "this month" is there! It's really nice of you to think of me and invite me. :-)