Friday, September 11, 2009

"What Now Ben?"

This scene has been on my mind, and I've been wondering if this is the first time that Jacob ever touched Ben. If it is, will Ben be affected by Jacob's contact as we are to assume that the lives of the Losties that he touched were? Granted, Jack didn't seem to become any less of a tool after his encounter with Jacob at the candy machine, so I wouldn't expect miracles with Ben here. But since for whatever reason Jacob had withheld his presence from Ben, the gravity of this first contact could be a very profound one on such an attention hungry man. This could be the final straw that wrecks Ben's last good nerve, and becomes the release valve that blows the pressure that's built up in him after a life of working very hard on things that perhaps he never understood at all.

So it brings to mind the question of what's in store for Ben in S6. There are no take-backs when you bludgeon someone, Ben could stumble back from seeing Jacob callously kicked into the flames and feel that he made a terrible mistake. Or he could whip around and finish his stabbing spree on Not-Locke out of insane anger at being used for yet another killing. Maybe Jacob's phoenix spirit will whisper to Ben, the way that Obi-Wan whispered to Luke, that it's better this way. But Luke didn't kill Obi, so who knows if Ben can come back from the dark side after murdering the man he thought was his hero.

I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this event will effect Ben and what he will do next. But my imagination is leaning towards seeing the act of killing Jacob completely cracking Ben's mind under the weight of all his previous evil deeds, and then he lives the rest of his life mumbling and playing Connect-Four with Lenny at Santa Rosa.


Wayne Allen Sallee said...

You got me on this one, Capcom. I don't know if I'd consider that a touch or a full-on grip, but still, I'm not certain what's up with Ben until S6.

Capcom said...

Or a grope, heheh.

I really can't wait, I am so curious as to what can happen to Ben now, he has been through so much, lost so much, and done such atrocious things in his life in the name of "whomever". And this emotionally driven "stabbity-stab" thing is so outside of his usual calculated demeanor.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

I said it after young Ben was shot, he chose to grow up bad, regardless of his dad treating him badly. He had Annie, and even though we now know she was evacuated, and it's one of those little things that could be clarified by a better writer (i.e., more mention of Annie than just the creepy dolls). I still don't get why Annie's friendship didn't counter his wanting to be off the Island. He wasn't the only kid left behind, we saw Ethan later. I think he has simply been selfish, Capcom, and that's an easy way for MIB or Jacob to take advantage of him. Look how Ben took advantage of Locke because he knew Locke, more than anyone else, believed in the Island. For me, Ben's speech was just self-serving justification fueled by MIB Locke.

In a similar way, I think that Eloise has her interests (and whoever she represents) first, and that she'd switch sides if it suited her. I'll bet we don't see Ben for a few episodes come S6, and the ramifications of his speech become apparent in other ways.

Capcom said...

I totally agree. Surely he wasn't the only kid on the island who had a creepy dad, and we know that Roger wasn't the only male jerk in the DI bunch either. Someone like Ben, especially since Horace seems to have taken him under wing, could have taken the high road. But then there's that Temple/innocence thing that we need to know more about though, darn.

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see Ben for a while either.

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Capcom, I just remember a lot of people being all down on the shooting of Ben. I get that, but as far as we knew about WHH at that point, Ben was always going to be bad. And, hey, what if Jacob touched Ben and moved the bullet hole (he certainly brought Locke back to life after the fall). Whatever happens to Ben inside the Temple--which I assume to be nothing more than being told of the ways of the Island's indigenous tribe--would be ironic. Ben kills Jacob out of anger when it was Jacob (maybe) who allowed Ben to experience whatever he will in the Temple. At the very least, given the chance to be errand boy, a job he will later despise in his fatal rant?

As we saw so many of the 815ers act selfishly in S1, S6 might show the selfishness of those in the real world, as it were. Hawking, Ben's group (Jill the butcher, etc.), Ilana's group, Widmore's group. I think the good vs. bad war will have some twists. Oh and can't forget the present-day Others.

Capcom said...


It could also be that when you get "revived" in the temple, that MIB, or Cerberus, or whatever, goes into your body like a type of death eater, and stops the death from coming, and then you retain parts of that entity after it's over. Bloody heck, I can't wait until they tell us.

Humans are unique over the other animals in that they can tell stories, and wow, do we love stories.

pgtbeauregard said...

Hi Capcom,

When Ben stabbed Jacob, I never felt that he was dead. I don't think he can be killed by a mere mortal, and that's what Ben is, a deeply disturbed mortal, who, really thinks he is doing what is right. (although stabbing Jacob was out of sheer emotion, aka Keamy)

When Ben grabbed (groped) Jacob, I don't believe it was the first time they touched, it's possible that Jacob touched him when he was in the temple with Richard. That's what "changed" him.

I so can't wait until the first epi of S6.!!!

Capcom said...

Hi PGT, good ideas! And interesting thought that Jacob touched Ben in the temple. I always figured that is was MIB, due to the idea of his losing innocence and all (only on the premise that everything MIB does is for himself, or bad exclusively). But that's a good train of thought with Jacob.

pgtbeauregard said...

The MIB could have gotten to him in the temple, but I can't see Richard intentionally taking Ben to him.

Ben was so shocked when he got his tumor, he may have thought he was protected because of the time at the temple. That would be a good case for MIB being there instead of Jacob.

So, I have contradicted myself in one posting. Why do we do this to ourselves?????

Capcom said...

What do you mean about Richard not taking him to the temple PGT? As something different than him carrying Bennie into it? Tx.

pgtbeauregard said...

What I was not so brilliantly trying to say was, I didn't think Richard would intentially take Ben to MIB. I feel that Richard's loyalty lies with Jacob.

MIB may have gotten to Ben in the temple, but not because Richard meant for it to happen.

I can't wait to see Richard's back story, that should clear up a lot.

Capcom said...

OK I see now, sorry for being dense, heheh. Lately being dense is my trademark. :o)

I'm hoping for some RA FB as well, geewizz!

pgtbeauregard said...

Not dense, just not following my ramblings!!

I don't think Ben was evil before he went into the temple, and truly don't think he's evil now.

I don't like most of the things he does/ or at least the way he goes about doing them. He could be more upright in his methods, but it's very possible he believes he is doing the right thing for the survival of the island.

This has been debated back and forth, so not much new here, but I do hope they clear this up.

Capcom said...

I agree with your thoughts about Ben. Aside from getting sidetradked about the fertility thing (as implied by RA talking to Locke) he pretty much maintained that he was following orders, more or less. It would be really juicy if it turns out that he has been unknowingly following both Jacob's and MIB's orders, and that he is as mixed up as we are about his actions! That would have to be that MIB is inserting his own agenda in between Ben's orders from Jacob, to trip Jacob's plans up.

Way back when, there was something Ben did that struck me as totally against the good of the island logically, but I can't right now remember what it was. I think that I even wrote a post on it here. Duh. But it just totally seemed as if he was doing someething that would be contradictory to protecting the island. I wish that I could remember what that was. See, dense. :-B

beer said...

heh, don't forget lenny heard the numbers over the radio, not from any person.