This episode was very uncomfortable viewing, to me. I don't enjoy the violent storylines in the show and prefer Lost with philosophical and adventurous tones, without killings every ten minutes. That's just me. So this episode left me feeling like how the kid in the picture looks.Little Bennie has formed a fascination with the Hostiles since we last saw him. This time we see (by how helpful he is with the sandwiches!) that he really could have been a help to his dad being useful and worthy of love if he was only given a chance -- something that Sayid obviously didn't intuit at the end of show when he had to go and KILL HIM!!! Sheesh. But by the time we see Bennie here, the seeds of self-loathing and shame have taken their toll on his psyche and he's becoming the master schemer that he'll be as an adult. Or...was Bennie a congenital killer like little Sayid is supposed to be?
The conversation between Ben and Sayid at the construction site reminded me of Kill Bill 2, where Bill tells Beatrix that she's a natural born killer herself, and that she can't have a normal life no matter how hard she tries. Earlier, Sayid seemed to think that Ben had used him as his own personal killing machine, but as Ben points out to Sayid he was very eager to hop onto the killing train on his own, and now it's over. So Ben more or less tells him to go get a life, if he has one, while Ben pretends to giddily traipse back to the lovely life that he doesn't have either. The Pot calling the Kettle black? I think so.
You have to feel sorry for Horace this week, he was in a very bad spot. It's like in those cartoons when the character has a devil (Radzinsky) on one shoulder, and an angel (James) on the other, each trying to sway the decision-making process of the poor confused soul. Horace sticks with procedure though and takes Sayid for some psychedelic discipline and the funniest scenes of the episode. Sayid must have been cracking up for how scary Oldham's torturous practices weren't..."ooooh, yer gonna make me trip my brains out for answers, wow!" Heheh. I guess that we're supposed to assume that Oldham would bring out the tongue-pliers if the drugs didn't work.
And I'm going to place a small bet right now that Radzinsky actually died after he nagged Kelvin past his one last good nerve, some particularly lonely night in the Swan. Perhaps Kelvin didn't pull the trigger, but I can imagine him egging Radz on very strongly in order to put them both out of Mr.Poopiepants' misery. There's always a hot-headed Widmore and a naggy Radzinsky in very bunch.
Not much to say about Kate and Juliet yet, until we see how the new prisoner situation might unravel their cover story. If the con gets crazy, James and Juliet might not have much time to play house anyway. But Kate can't say that Sawyer didn't ask her to play house first, back when he was still Sawyer. See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya, Kate.
The Sheriff has got a lot to ponder from here on out. Hurley should not cause him any problems, unless he makes one of his famous slips of the lip. Juliet's got his back, and so far Jack is willingly playing along with his Sheriff role even if only to allow James to trip himself up so then Jack gets to laugh at him. Kate's good at lying, but how long will her patience last if James doesn't come running back as quickly as she wants? And the rest of the Left Behinders apparently don't exist anymore, so they aren't going to be a problem. But I reckon that the Sheriff is learning that it's lonely at the top.
16 comments:
Well, no need to dice over the discussions re: Ben that were over at EYE M SICK. The violent episodes are real life, Capcom, but its hard to turn away from it when its something you want to watch. (Time travel is also real life, you just don't know about it. Yet. You'll be ready soon).
I'm just not into the whole father/son thing, but that's me. It was more shocking to see Sayid shoot a CHILD then care about anything else. If I had to balance the scales of our views closer, I'd say that Richard, in some way, helped facilitate Ben's hatred of Dharma life. Much like the Room 23 and the brainwashing of children and the general interest involving children by the Others. The DI are pretty much my age, the last generation where parents could beat their kids senseless and not face lawsuits or reprisals. I'm crippled, if I knocked my milk over as a kid (which was pretty much every other day), I got the strap. My dad's police strap. When I was in my teens, I was tossed down the stairs. My mother was worse with the strap than my father ever was. So its not that I'm indifferent towards young Ben, its more like, in the 70s, half the boys I knew were getting the crap beaten out of them at home. Parents can be more cruel than any kid your own age. These days, it makes the news.
So, did Juliet fill in the aptitude test results, or did she simply replace the names of the recruits who decided not to come? I think it could be both, but it makes sense that she wouldn't want it known that Jack is a surgeon (same with her as fertility doctor), mostly for secrecy reasons. Maybe she's keeping a close eye on Kate, like your photo on the post. (You never did reply on the last post, the other photo, WHY are you showing us Jack's butt?!?) And Hurley as chef is great, I'm sure certain job titles were duplicated, an extra chef would be under the radar.
I do hope we get to see some scenes of Jack with Roger Linus. And it was good to see some acknowledgment that LeFleur knew about young Ben, I'm sure a lot of people were curious. I think the writers are constructing these last episodes quite well, brick by brick. Sure, the O6ers knew about Ben, but let's have Sayid see him first and let it hang for a week. That's just good writing. Next, maybe James will fill us in on where Faraday is.
If young Ben is dead, can adult Ben now go back to 1977 with the rest of Christian's Mystery Machine? Is this a possible new level for the show to pursue?
The biggest question of all, though: seriously, Jack's butt???
Yes, I too think that it's awful that Sayid could kill a little kid cold like that. To me also, seeing what Sayid saw just compounded it, I guess that's my woman's view with the chance to nurture being lost as well making it even more tragic. And I know violence is a part of life and all, I guess I've just become more of a pacifist in my older age, and don't enjoy violence as entertainment very much. Now if Sayid gave Bennie a flying roundhouse instead of a bullet...j/k. (I do still like my chop-socky flicks) And thankfully, these days treating children badly does make the news. I'm very sorry about your experiences. :-o
Good question about the tests. Maybe she did just fill them in as needed, to get the O6 where they needed them to be woven into the community. Yeah, let's get Jack and Roger together, with Jack's dad-baggage that should be a really interesting encounter!
I did explain Jack's butt! I just deleted your duplicated post, so there was still only 11 comments after I replied. :-D It was just such a weird screencap, I had to use it somehow.
I'm afraid to think too much about whether Ben is dead or not, and if so, then what, etc. And let's see, we've got only 6 episodes left this season? Crikey.
This week's episode is called "What Happened, Happened." As bad as the final scene of "He's Our You" was, there are just so many ways this can go. Is Ben dead or wounded? Think of how many people will take this badly, James, Richard, pretty much all opf the DI will think that a Hostile killed/wounded Ben. Never mind my thoughts about the Mystery Machine and future Ben from 2007.
I'm somewhat desensitized to violence in a way because I use my writing to deal with it. To answer a question I'm not getting answered in real life, like that. And it always surprises me that its more taboo to show or imply something sexy yet its A-OK to have explosions every thirteen seconds in a film.
No bad memories of childhood, not even of my alcoholic parents. Water under the bridge. I knew a few kids on the block, and those people who weren't born in the late 50s/early 60s might not realize how easy it was to get slapped silly (or worse). I never put that into the perspective of the DI being peaceful and utopian, yet having the truth serum and (I assume) the brainwashing room.
I missed the comment from your last post, you're right, I was counting comments. (My keyboard must be working again, I'm doing double posts, ha ha). You can always use my Lost signage pics. Oh, OK. Just post another shot of Sawyer. Fine. Son of a--
By the way, that is a great title for your post. Rewatched the end of the episode, I rarely get to rewatch it in one sitting. Sayid's face is so pitiful after shooting Ben. Another reflection that those who stayed on the Island were happy, and the O6 had even more baggage than before 815 crashed. Next week I bet Ann Arbor gets involved and give Horace the real names of those who were on the original sub manifest.
Cut the double post, #$%#$@. My keyboard's back, yay!
Wow, so maybe this week we'll get some Danny Boy? I hope so, TPTB have made us wait a long time for his take on DI-ville!
Interesting about your writing. I've had something to ask you about that, but I'll do it in an email soon. I have my theories on why sometimes sex is less taboo than various violence in entertainment, but my tolerance for both is less and less as time goes on.
I really hope that we get to see the Ann Arbor angle. When I was an innocent young hippie myself (ugh), I idolized those people like the DeGroots, bought into the communism/commune hype, read Carlos Castenada and Be Here Now, and all of that pyschobabble hippie crap (so DI-ville is a trip down memory lane for me!). Then I was disallusioned to find out that the "peace-loving" hippies were the first ones to rip you off given the chance, etc. Anyway, I'd still like to see a portrayal of how TPTB visualize the DeGroots as leaders of this DI movement and org.
Let's hear it for the new keyboard! X-D
I'm still wondering on how the DI take the jump from truth serum to brainwashing. They are on Hydra Island at some point, I'll bet in the early 80s. Remember, in the "voting room " Amy mentioned being worried for Ethan and the "other children." Some of them will still be children, I think, when Room 23 opens. I'm curious as to if Horace realizes that Jacob has chosen him yet, i.e., is it Jacob that cranks up the DI's mission statement or if it comes from Ann Arbor. You know, something like Phase One proved successful, let's move on to Phase Two...and Room 23.
Wellll, there was that psychological stuff in the TLE Dharma program that "Rachel" uncovered, so I wonder if that was a part of the DI after Mittlejerk took over, or before then? I wouldn't think that it would be a part of Hanso's original idealogy for his DI purposes, but perhaps after things got corrupted a little and functioned under the radar for a while, then something like a nasty Room23 could come about.
And what would be the purpose of a Room23 anyway? To force people to stay after they decide that they don't want to be DI anymore (Roger could have used a little Rm23 for sure!)? Or to set up a place to brainwash the Hostiles one by one after they are captured? I really don't get that whole part about Rm23, now that you mention it.
Ah, Capcom. Or is it Persophone? Its the show I want to see answer this stuff. The writers who invested five years into this. The ARGs are all work for hire people, the Ajira thing went over great with focus groups and that's why the second Dharma ARG was dumped.
To me, the ARGs are not about the DI in 1977 and what we are seeing each week. The writers will deal with Room 23 in some way, maybe Ceaser and Ilana will come across it and Locke will impart info through Jacob, who knows? Maybe Hydra is already up and going in 1977, I momentarily forgot that, of course, the place was deserted in 2007, as it was in 2004.
The ARGs are work for hire, and the writers of LOST are the ones with the flames to their butts. Brian K. Vaughn is now a producer, last year he was a writer, the year before he was writing comics. Vaughn will run a tight ship.
At some point, someone will know about the time travel, maybe this week (by its title), if we see the pinhole video with Chang and Faraday. Someone from our 2007 group will likely confront the 1977 hippies with their knowledge of the crazy Jacob Loves You stuff and a few other things I can't really think of right now (most of it, I think, was on Hydra).
I hate to go on about the ARGs, but it is work for hire, the same kind of thing I'm involved with now. Everything in their contract had a beginning and an end, like in Find815.com.
I am wondering who will be the first to call b.s. on the DI's utopia. That scene HAS to happen, and it's likely going to be from James, as he was on Hydra. He saw Room 23. And he knew adult Ethan, and what he did and I hope that gets shoved in Amy's face. But your offering up the ARG intel plays no part in what I was getting at. You have some interesting thoughts on if the place was first meant for ADULTS, those who are unhappy with DI life, or even volunteers with Oldham. I have faith we will get a good amount of the answers we want.
Well actually the first ARG, TLE, was written in part by one of the writers who used to write for the show in the first two seasons (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Javi). He was also DJDan, but I never paid that much attention to the DJDan part of it I must admit, it was a big hit with everyone but me. :-p
TLE wasn't for everyone's taste, but it wasn't supposed to be TPTB said. It was there for those who wanted to get in really deep, but not required for those who only wanted to watch the show, altho the parallels are all there. The following ARGs were were like pablum, coming after the juicy meat of the first one. They didn't have a chance of surviving the fans expectations after TLE. :o)
I agree! At some point someone is going to get frustrated with the whole DI hypocrisy and lose it on them. I'd also vote for James as being the one to call "Shenanigans!" if he can't keep it all together for the Losties; then perhaps Jack out of frustration from not being allowed to be Leadery; and then maybe Kate since we know how much she hates Taco Night and playing Happy Home.
:-D
I think at this point it will be James who will make the call, I'm just thinking that if the DI finds out Jack is a surgeon, that will somehow mess things up. I have no basis for thinking that, just the idea that "hiding a doc in a janitorial position" seems like it would freak at least Radzinsky off.
I have heard much good things about Javier, and I'm certain that's why TLE was as good as it was for those who saw it through. Maybe they felt like they had to front-load LOST and do as much as possible, never knowing how successful the show would actually be on its own. But then there's part of me that wishes it didn't seem to just run on a parallel, e.g., Mittlewerk never even mentioned in passing on the show. Can't have it both ways, but at least Find815 seemed to give us the salvage vessell, etc. Is there anything from TLE that has been mentioned on the show yet?
Well there's...
The Hanso Foundation
The DHARMA Initiative
The DI research factions and goals
The Numbers and the VE
The Numbers transmission
The purpose of the DI on the island
Setting up the island stations
Apollo bars :o)
Widmore and Paik industries
That the DI fails their mission
Mysterious cancer healings
Ann Arbor Michigan
The DeGroots and psych research
DHARMA acronym explained
Electromagnetic research
...to name a few. TPTB said this: "...the Internet Experience was a way for us to get out mythologies that we would never get to in the show. We created it for purposes of understanding the world of the show but it was something that was always going to be sort of below the water, sort of the iceberg metaphor, and the Internet Experience sort of gave us a chance to reveal it."
Haha, right, if Radz gets a whiff of the deception, look out! :-D
Nice post. I didn't care for this episode either. But the only Sayid centric I've ever liked was 'The Economist' anyway. The episode seemed kind of choppy to me too, and it probably wasn't. . .it just seemed like they had a list of questions we should have about Sayid and they wrote a list of scenes to answer them. . . .they didn't flow for me. . .but maybe that was just me.
Hi Lost2010, tx! Speaking of choppy, I thought so too, that the ep seemed to be jumping around a lot even for Lost. And didn't TPTB say this past summer that there wouldn't be anymore of the usual character flashbacks anymore? Hmmm.
@lost2010 over at EYE M SICK, they kind of consider it a Sayid/Ben story, and that works for me. After Kate, the Sayid-centric episodes are least meaningful in the way of flashbacks. Kate is selfish, Sayid sadistic. Got that in S1, thanks. Back in the day, there was talk of a Vincent-centric episode, set completely on Island (which makes sense, doh). It was replaced with the Nikki/Paolo episode after they proved unpopular, and that still is one of my FAVORITE episodes because we see multiple POVs and various days in that single hour. I'm holding out for episodes that are Faraday and Richard-centric, after tomorrow's Kate-centric episode, I don't think there's any other story to be told aside from Desmond's.
@Capcom, I'm sure it has to do with Javier working on both ends, but almost everything on that list from TLE I either got from the original Hanso Foundation website (and I know I didn't get that from TLE, I think it was the Swan Orientation film?)or from watching the show itself. I don't need to know about the Valenzetti Equation, but since its mention on the blast door map, it'd be nice to see it on the show. I'm certain TLE was viral in the sense of word of mouth to ensure that the show had success, so maybe TLE had to put that stuff in the ARG in case the show didn't last. Also, I'm guessing that the intent was to do reverse word-of-mouth, to check TLE because other people seemed to know more about the details early-on. Mention of Mittlewerk is about the only thing we haven't seen, though maybe if we see Ann Arbor we'll hear mention of him, you think? Also, my guess with Paik Heavy Industries is that they are the ones providing all the construction equipment to the Island (via the Looking Glass or Flame communications re: compass bearing).
I wonder if S2 stumbled a bit because Javier left? Brian K. Vaughn was great as writer in S4, but now he is producer, as well. I he did this summer's ARG (if there is one), I'm sure it would be intriguing. I'd like to see an ARG helping people with the time travel aspect, maybe use someone at Oxford who followed Faraday's lead.
LOL, you said, "Got that in S1, thanks." X-D
Wouldn't it be great to have an episode from Vincent's POV?! He could run from place to place, watching what people are doing, hearing what they say, heheh. Might be difficult to do though, as there were tons of continuity problems with him just carrying that arm around...carrying it left, carrying it right, with sleeve, without sleeve, haha.
Boy, there are a lot of people waiting to see Mittlewerk come onto the scene, that's for sure. Old man Hanso too! Except for bringing up Mittlewerk's name in a conversation, I don't think they have time to bring in his whole story though. :-( The native American who played him seems like a really neat guy though, and he did a good job of making us 'hate' him since he is actually all gentle and New Agey and stuff.
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