Saturday, September 6, 2008

"A Little Help From My Friends"

Wayne volunteered to recharge my brain of mush with an interesting question. Here's how he put it for me in an email:

"Last night I was on the Sayid-flashback in S4. I went back at the end to replay the talk between Ben and Widmore in Widmore's bedroom. I had always concentrated on the "ah, Ben's going after Penny now because Alex died." But there was an important exchange that I should have picked up on after "Meet Kevin Johnson."

Widmore: Are you going going to kill me.

Ben: We both know I can't.

Ben can't kill Widmore because the Island won't let Widmore die, like Tom told Michael? I thought it was about committing suicide and/or "The Island has more work for you." Does that mean Widmore is protected in some way because he WAS on the Island at some time? That he isn't just looking for it again, as if it is a legend like Atlantis, but rather he was there, maybe turned the FDW and was banished? Seriously, the first time around, watching it on TV, I thought ah, going after Penny. Makes sense. But, hell, Jann, he slit Keamy's throat. Why not just pump bullets into Widmore right then and there? Why Can't Ben Kill Widmore? "

All good points. This Ben/Charles dialogue evokes SO many questions about Widmore concerning how he originally got a hold of the island (merely via the Hanso Org?), if he ever lived there, how he got separated from the island, why he can't go back, etc. And, if he needs to get back to the island for healing because he's got some mysterious "shpilkes in his geneckteckessoink" (thank you Linda Richman). And like Wayne said, is there more to the reason why Ben can't kill him, than just because the island won't let him? Sometimes I think that Ben and Widmore are dependant upon each other... that is, there might be a reason that Ben can't live without Widmore, and visa versa, because if one dies the other will too. Oy, it makes me all meshuggah!

Can TPTB answer all the Widmore questions by the end of Season 6? Will TPTB answer these questions?! We need some farkakte answers about Widmore soon. :-)


Wayne Allen Sallee said...

And, no, that is Michael Myers, not me in the photo. I look more like the Michael Myers in HALLOWEEN. Let the debate begin. One thing I like about LOST is that picking up on one piece of dialogue allows for losing another piece of dialogue, or at least the latter overshadowing the former. I don't necessarily think Widmore was banished, I just threw that out there, but it seems as if Ben has more "operatives" that Charles does, from the film he shows Jack(?). Yet, Widmore is the Lex Luthor who maybe spends more time on making fake plane wreckages appear than in digging up info on Ben. Think about it, why not go after Tom? Or Alpert? Maybe Widmore knows way less than Ben, and maybe its because its all about the Island, not the cat and mouse game.

Lost 2010 said...

That seems plausible to me. That would lead you to think that Widmore still has "work to do" as far as the island is concerned. Because once Michael's work was done, he got to die.

Death is starting to look like more of a reward on Lost than a punishment if you ask me.

I think Ben showed video-taped films to Sayid and Locke and a tape of a ballgame to Jack. What's interesting is that the tape of Widmore's goons that was shown to Locke appeared to be taped OVER the ballgame he showed Jack - which was probably a red herring - but to me that implied at the time that an operative had somehow made it back to the island or transmitted that video to Mikhail between the time when Jack learned about the Red Sox and the time when Locke saw his video.

Capcom said...

LOL! Yes, I guess I should have mentioned that about the picture Wayne. :-) Trivia: did you know that one of the Michael Myers was played by the actor who played the indian Nakoma on the Grizzly Adams TV show? I used to be so in love with that indian.

Anyway, good points you two. The thing that bugs me is that, if Jacob/Island wants to save himself from Widmore, why does it seem like Jacob/Island doesn't want Widmore dead? That confuses me so much. Because it does seem as if we are being shown that the island won't let Wid die, but yet, it's being apparently assaulted by Widmore. Maybe the island doesn't want Widmore to own it, but Widmore is still useful to the island in the world/present? OK, this is what we've resorted to, talking about an island as if it's a human. Dang!

Heheh, death as a reward. :-)

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

As lost says, maybe it is more the "Widmore has more to do" scenario. And I knew that Red Sox tape was involved, just forgot who saw both edits. Thx, lost.

Capcom: look at where Jacob/Island has been, mostly in Christian, (I think) sometimes in Locke in order to watch Walt early on in S1, so maybe he's keeping Widmore alive NOT so Widmore can get back to the Island, rather to keep the Ben and Widmore chessboard game going. Of course, S5 and the 1978 setting will blow holes in half of this, but then again, maybe Widmore already knows about the paradox of 1978. I try not to think about the course correction stuff, I lean towards Widmore being a pawn, not being able to see past his money. Ben has money, as well, but Jacob long ago taught him that it wasn't important.

Lost, good point, though about the tape. We're again talking a matter of days between Jack's seeing the tape and the next viewing, but with Michael's trip to NYC, this might not be a "red herring" but another illustration that times passes in odd ways off-Island, if only by a few days or so. Possibly, as with the doctor from the freighter, its possible to travel backwards in time, so Ben's lackey who delivered the tape might have had a few days -reverse-head start.

Lost 2010 said...

1978? Why would we have a 1978 setting? Please tell me that's not a spoiler - I've been so careful this time. . .:)

Capcom said...

I think just because of Chang's 1978 video and the possibility that we might get to go there.

Lost 2010 said...

Whew! I was worried for a minute. I'd already forgotten about Chang and his video :)

M The Alien said...

Good afternoon!
I'm thinking along the lines of, the Island/Jacob simply doesn't want Widmore to come back until he's finished his work, whatever that may be. It may just be a waiting game. What I mean is, remember when Desmond flashed to the past and told Penny to call him at a certain number at a certain time? That was like a 5 minute jump for Des, but I believe it was a year or 2 before Penny actually had to make the call. So what i'm thinking is that Widmore was told of events that have to take place before he can come back. My best guess is that Widmore was at the island before ben arrived or left right as Ben got there. (How awesome would it be if we find out that Widmore was like a Dharma camp counselor to Ben LOL!)Anyway, i'm figuring that Widmore is more or less going through the motions until a specific event takes place, that is probably out of his control, and at that point will have more freedom to retun to the island.

I'm still not back to %100, so if I say something stupid, or forget something significant, please forgive me!!

Capcom said...

You know, that's a really good idea! I never thought of it that way before. Heheh, maybe he even might have gotten his Uncle Jacob or Uncle Magnus mad, and gotten punished by banishment for a period of time. :o)

Hey, nice to have you posting again Alien! Don't worry about flubbing, it's all so much to keep track of anyway, so just keep getting better. :-)

Wayne Allen Sallee said...

Glad to see you back, m, and thanks for following my blog. I didn't even know that was a function, you're the first. (If anyone checks m's profile, you'll see a bunch of follower faces).

lost, sorry about that! No, if I hear something through the course of my writing, I keep it quiet. (Currently, I'm ghostwriting a novel by a Big Name from a Sci-Fi channel series and can't say anything about it, so I DO keep secrets). I'm glad you knew about the Chang video, and I'm just making the assumption that with no more flashforwards or flashbacks, that a twist might be to have at least one or two episodes involve that pinhole time frame.

And thanks, Capcom. Edward Hopper would be proud.

Capcom said...

Thanks Wayne, I'm so glad that you liked the pic. :-)

Ellen said...

I think there is a good chance that perhaps Widmore might not know all of Ben's operatives off the island. though, obviously, Ben is finding most of Widmore's cronies since he is having Sayid murder them...


Capcom said...

Good points Ellen. Ben does seem to be trying to wittle down Widmore's henchmen one by one. I wonder if these are the guys at the top of Wid's mercenary food chain? Like say, the upper echelon planners, and Keamy would be one of the grunts at the bottom who does the "wet work" so to speak?

And like you said, Wid has the disadvantage of not knowing, or being able to recognize, Ben's troops.